Welcome to Just Commodores, a site specifically designed for all people who share the same passion as yourself.

New Posts Contact us

Just Commodores Forum Community

It takes just a moment to join our fantastic community

Register

JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

Immortality

Can't live without smoky bacon!
Staff member
Joined
Apr 15, 2006
Messages
22,756
Reaction score
20,862
Points
113
Location
Sth Auck, NZ
Members Ride
HSV VS Senator, VX Calais II L67
Well, here's a clicky that might be a little more palatable...

Nahh, it's Friday evening. Time for politics is over.

Watching Masters of the Air.

Watching the last episode. Maybe we need to make shows like this mandatory watching so people don't forget the atrocities committed by humans unto other humans not that long ago.

With the politics of the day we are heading down the same path!
 

chrisp

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
1,937
Reaction score
5,286
Points
113
Location
Melbourne Victoria
Members Ride
VF2 MY16 SS Redline Sportwagon
Without reading it, these developments are going full steam ahead, with owners already moved into finished houses, whilst more are being built...

So I could safely assume, the council has already approved the rezoning and building on this land

One area had building temporarily suspended as they found what they suspected being aboriginal bones....Turned out not to be so, so building continued on

You’re arguing with @J_D 2.0 about two different things. @J_D 2.0 has been pointing out developer holding on to large tracts of land on the outskirts of the cities and releasing them at a limited rate (land banking). It’s a real and actual issue which is driving up property prices (links provided earlier).

You are pointing out some smaller subdivisions being redeveloped.

They are two different things, mainly due to the different scale, different stages and the different intents.

The Victorian government has introduced a 50% ‘windfall’ tax on land banking to clawback the profits from sitting in land (buying up farm lands) just outside the city and awaiting (read encouraging/lubicating/bribing local councils) to rezone the area to residential.
 

J_D 2.0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
3,008
Reaction score
7,110
Points
113
Location
Ipswich
Members Ride
2009 VE SSV M6 on LPG and 2022 Kawasaki Z650L
Without reading it, these developments are going full steam ahead, with owners already moved into finished houses, whilst more are being built...

So I could safely assume, the council has already approved the rezoning and building on this land

One area had building temporarily suspended as they found what they suspected being aboriginal bones....Turned out not to be so, so building continued on

I also heard years back, areas that were once like country areas, where you drove for 20 k or so, with very minimal housing, is now being developed to join up with existing heavily populated areas....This is now showing up, as a couple of these developments are in the area I describe

There has been a large development only a few kilometres from where I live that has been slowly trickling out over the last decade.

The Ripley valley development was rubber stamped in 2010 for 48,000 dwellings and a population of 130,000. Even up till now there aren’t that many people living there yet.

Like I said before, we used to just subdivide the land and auction it off in quick succession. Now it’s trickle fed into the market in stages to maximise returns to the developer.


https://www.statedevelopment.qld.go...ects/priority-development-areas/ripley-valley
 

Sabbath'

Redblock Jesus
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
6,287
Reaction score
4,325
Points
113
Location
Vic
Members Ride
80 Series// VFII Black Edition
The building industry may move as fast as the current market allows but if the market is restricted because land is hoarded then the building industry will be the correct size to build at the currently required rate. If more demand is created then more builders will come into being to build more houses!


How will finding more subcontractors free up the majority of stock AV Jennings has that is being held in limbo by government bureaucracy?




How many freehold blocks now are just subdivided and sold off direct to the public? It doesn’t happen, the developers get all the land and trickle feed it into the market in stages as slow as they can get away with.
Do you have any idea of the costs involved in preparing Greenfield land for development?

Water
Power
Stormwater
Sewage
Communication
Roads
Amenities
Etc.

None of that is cheap. None of that happens without the councils (referring back to the data you provided)....zoning and permitting.

You just made my specific argument for me! Cheers!

Like I said, everything else in life is deemed as a “cost” and anything involving housing is an “investment“.

Because one derives a benefit. The other does not. Just like the money you spend on your solar. Do you consider that to be an investment or simply a cost? I'll make it easy for you...you invested money into the panels to reap a benefit from them.
We’ve imported more than 400,000 people just in the past year because Labor are just as beholden to the big Australia policy as the LNP is.

They both pull the swiftly of importing heaps of people so we never have a technical recession but we have a per capita recession and most voters are too stupid to understand the trick that is being played.
It's an entirely frustrating situation. Bulk immigration to try and stave off technical recession or to try and fix a housing issue that is in part being driven by that immigration is like running around on a never ending hamster wheel.

Eventually somebody needs to call time and put a pause on the excess immigration above what our industries can service for a period until a more sustainable model is decided on.
 

the_boozer

no more VK
Joined
Nov 7, 2009
Messages
1,529
Reaction score
771
Points
113
Age
51
Location
Shitsville Morwell
Members Ride
hilux
How many mushrooms to a slice of pizza?
So they are all rubbish? That is mostly what I see built the cheapest pine frame on a concrete slab unfortanately on land that was formerly swamp? Even the steal frame houses are pretty weak when it comes to punching threw a door or wall. Hence why I say no contractor has any morals every job thats paid me very well was building **** buildings.
 

vc commodore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
10,810
Reaction score
12,881
Points
113
Location
Like the Leyland Brothers
Members Ride
VC, VH and VY
You’re arguing with @J_D 2.0 about two different things. @J_D 2.0 has been pointing out developer holding on to large tracts of land on the outskirts of the cities and releasing them at a limited rate (land banking). It’s a real and actual issue which is driving up property prices (links provided earlier).

You are pointing out some smaller subdivisions being redeveloped.

They are two different things, mainly due to the different scale, different stages and the different intents.

The Victorian government has introduced a 50% ‘windfall’ tax on land banking to clawback the profits from sitting in land (buying up farm lands) just outside the city and awaiting (read encouraging/lubicating/bribing local councils) to rezone the area to residential.

Not pointing out smaller subdivisions.....A couple are large areas of land that is now being sub divided and built on....We're talking thousands of houses getting built in these estates, not a few hundred

There are also smaller portions of land that have been subdivided and being built...ie a few hundred
 

J_D 2.0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 20, 2020
Messages
3,008
Reaction score
7,110
Points
113
Location
Ipswich
Members Ride
2009 VE SSV M6 on LPG and 2022 Kawasaki Z650L
How will finding more subcontractors free up the majority of stock AV Jennings has that is being held in limbo by government bureaucracy?

But it’s not being held up by bureaucrats, that’s the point. Thats just the convenient line they spin to always blame government.

When AV Jennings can’t complete 10% of the approved lots that are in their current pipeline it’s not “bureaucracy” that is slowing it down!

Do you have any idea of the costs involved in preparing Greenfield land for development?

Water
Power
Stormwater
Sewage
Communication
Roads
Amenities
Etc.

None of that is cheap. None of that happens without the councils (referring back to the data you provided)....zoning and permitting.

Yes there are substantial costs involved with greenfield sites and those costs used to be borne by the government (who owned and provided all those services). The government also sold the land (with assistance from the RE sector to do the auction) so they recouped the money paid for the services.

They also had a pretty decent incentive to sell the land quickly as they would get more ratepayers into their jurisdiction if they sold more blocks of land to build houses on.

Now the costs for all the infrastructure are foisted onto the private developers even though the governments get the ongoing rates that are supposed to be paying for those services. Creates a disconnect between the action and the ongoing benefits.


Because one derives a benefit. The other does not. Just like the money you spend on your solar. Do you consider that to be an investment or simply a cost? I'll make it easy for you...you invested money into the panels to reap a benefit from them.

Buying a car derives a benefit as well, not having to walk to work is a pretty solid benefit but that’s not (generally) considered an investment is it?

Also using solar panels as an example isn’t really the same. Solar panels do provide an economic return (energy) that has actual ongoing value, either through using the energy yourself or selling it to the power grid.

A carport derives effectively no economic benefit to me, it just makes my car cooler when I hop in it in summer and stops it from deteriorating as quick in the sun. Also reduces the risk from hail storms and such so possibly a minor decrease in insurance premiums and thats it.

So the carport is actually a net economic negative for the economy as a whole as my car is better protected so I’m less likely to spend money on it in the future getting it repainted or repaired due to UV or hail damage!

It's an entirely frustrating situation. Bulk immigration to try and stave off technical recession or to try and fix a housing issue that is in part being driven by that immigration is like running around on a never ending hamster wheel.

Eventually somebody needs to call time and put a pause on the excess immigration above what our industries can service for a period until a more sustainable model is decided on.

Agreed. The government should stop this BS of importing more people than our housing and infrastructure can keep up with.

I still think importing the extra workers we currently require to build houses is a net positive for housing though as they will build more houses than they occupy.

Realistically immigration rates should get back to the 100-120k it was before John Howard started the big Australia policy that has been enthusiastically taken up by the Labor Party as well.

The LNP/Labor duopoly really are basically identical in all the actions that matter and the MSM constantly hammer the points that don’t matter at all to try and keep up the appearance that there is a difference between them. Both major parties sell out Australia for the lowest possible price.


 

vc commodore

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2014
Messages
10,810
Reaction score
12,881
Points
113
Location
Like the Leyland Brothers
Members Ride
VC, VH and VY
There has been a large development only a few kilometres from where I live that has been slowly trickling out over the last decade.

The Ripley valley development was rubber stamped in 2010 for 48,000 dwellings and a population of 130,000. Even up till now there aren’t that many people living there yet.

Like I said before, we used to just subdivide the land and auction it off in quick succession. Now it’s trickle fed into the market in stages to maximise returns to the developer.


https://www.statedevelopment.qld.go...ects/priority-development-areas/ripley-valley

And here's a link to a massive estate currently underway for the past 4ish years....They're not holding back, as they have been continually working on this estate for the whole 4ish years, with houses still unsold from the first release

https://brookmont.com.au/news
 

UTE042_NZ

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 26, 2017
Messages
734
Reaction score
3,922
Points
93
Location
New Zealand
Members Ride
MY17 Magnum Ute
Top