JC Political Thread - For All Things Political Part 2

[J_D 2.0]

You still don't own a house, in the ACT you get a 99 year lease as it's capital land or some ****. But! in every state they can actually take the land off you, sort of like what is happening with power lines they want to build in the countryside.
The government will get your asset valued and they will offer you that, you can disagree, get a second valuation and the government might accept it, or it's lawyer time.

Yes I know the ACT is the most socialist jurisdiction in the country as the government always owns all the land!

Nearly every country in the world has eminent domain laws that can deprive you of your property for the greater good.

Its still not a very common thing to be applied and in a lot of cases that I hear of it being applied the homeowner bought right next to a major highway or some such and then has a sook because the government wants to resume their property to extend or realign the highway.

People should do their research and look at the overall maps of the area and ask themselves “would a future government like to make a new highway where I am going to be living”.

 

[shane_3800]

No, they don’t. That’s just the line the developers spin to cover up their trickle feeding of the market to extort the highest prices possible.

Just blame the councils for not releasing enough land and media will dutifully report the same as they make a good chunk of their revenue from property advertising/sales.

AV Jennings have over 14,000 lots in the pipeline and only completed 279 for FY2023. Even if you only take the planning approved lots they still completed less than 10% of their approved lots. Council approvals isn’t what is slowing them down.


https://investors.avjennings.com.au..._HPU6N9vodb8flvg/file/AVJAnnualReport2023.pdf



View attachment 266586

So I can't really speak of WA where your fancy bs comes from, but if you're talking about council approvals, that is different from state planning approvals and new development approvals.
If you think this country doesn't have a problem with too much red tape and bureaucracy then you need your head read.

Lets just say you're correct though and this AV Jennings company is purposely not developing like you say which is pretty stupid as that is their core business and makes them money, but aside from that point. If this company was secretly doing this, which is plain to see, don't you think that is the failing of the local planning department for allowing this to happen?

But just to clear things up, developers don't do what you're saying, that would be stupid because they make money on selling developments.

 

[vc commodore]

No, they don’t. That’s just the line the developers spin to cover up their trickle feeding of the market to extort the highest prices possible.

Just blame the councils for not releasing enough land and media will dutifully report the same as they make a good chunk of their revenue from property advertising/sales.

AV Jennings have over 14,000 lots in the pipeline and only completed 279 for FY2023. Even if you only take the planning approved lots they still completed less than 10% of their approved lots. Council approvals isn’t what is slowing them down.


https://investors.avjennings.com.au..._HPU6N9vodb8flvg/file/AVJAnnualReport2023.pdf



View attachment 266586

The government can aquire your land for development purposes....ie more infructure.....

Currently in S.A, there is a big aquirement underway to widen a main road for a transport corrodor....The number of houses and businesses is massive and there is a big shite storm over valuations of said buildings...It's been going on for a few years now and has been happening in stages...

I'm also aware of some land aquirement being done, to allow more houses to be built in an area

I'm also sure the same thing happens interstate also....

 

[J_D 2.0]

The government can aquire your land for development purposes....ie more infructure.....

Currently in S.A, there is a big aquirement underway to widen a main road for a transport corrodor....The number of houses and businesses is massive and there is a big shite storm over valuations of said buildings...It's been going on for a few years now and has been happening in stages...

I'm also aware of some land aquirement being done, to allow more houses to be built in an area

I'm also sure the same thing happens interstate also....

Yes it does happen and it does cause a shitstorm when it does happen as people rightfully don’t want to be kicked out of their homes. Realistically it’s on the government to fairly compensate those people for the acquisition and sometimes properties do need to be resumed for the greater good.

 

[Sabbath']

No, they don’t. That’s just the line the developers spin to cover up their trickle feeding of the market to extort the highest prices possible.

Just blame the councils for not releasing enough land and media will dutifully report the same as they make a good chunk of their revenue from property advertising/sales.

AV Jennings have over 14,000 lots in the pipeline and only completed 279 for FY2023. Even if you only take the planning approved lots they still completed less than 10% of their approved lots. Council approvals isn’t what is slowing them down.


https://investors.avjennings.com.au..._HPU6N9vodb8flvg/file/AVJAnnualReport2023.pdf



View attachment 266586

Urm...did you look at the whole graphic?

They have 14000 units of stock.

They completed 279
1460 were being worked on when the report was published.

That's the two figures they can somewhat control.


Planning has been approved for ~3800. So now they're either waiting for trades or payments from customers to begin works. Nothing suggests it is AV Jennings holding up the cycle.


The largest chunk and covering over half of their stock is land that has been zoned but there have been no planning permit issued for. Who is responsible for the permits being issued?

 

[J_D 2.0]

So I can't really speak of WA where your fancy bs comes from

It’s AV Jennings, who are a national company. I put the link there for you to read but even though you always ask for sources you never seem to read them when they are provided.

Lets just say you're correct though and this AV Jennings company is purposely not developing like you say which is pretty stupid as that is their core business and makes them money

Someone is very naive. What happens to AV Jennings property portfolio every year that they don’t develop it? It increases in value!

They have a vested interest in holding off development for as long as possible as they will make more money in the future than they will if they develop it now.

If this company was secretly doing this, which is plain to see, don't you think that is the failing of the local planning department for allowing this to happen?

Why would it be a failure of the local planning department that a private company is withholding land? Not 100% sure on local bylaws but I’d find it highly unlikely that local councils can enforce a “use it or lose it” provision on AV Jennings and if they did AV Jennings would sue local councils in court to stop it. Hardly something a cash strapped local council would want to be going to court for.

But just to clear things up, developers don't do what you're saying, that would be stupid because they make money on selling developments.

They obviously do exactly what I’m saying, it’s in their own financial report FFS.

 

[shane_3800]

Yes it does happen and it does cause a shitstorm when it does happen as people rightfully don’t want to be kicked out of their homes. Realistically it’s on the government to fairly compensate those people for the acquisition and sometimes properties do need to be resumed for the greater good.

Yes but the government never pays full price.
Here in Canberra a perfect example is the Mr Fluffy house **** fight, there were something like 1000 houses, and the government buy back offers were lowballer as ****.
I remember a guy on another forum got caught up in that ****, it sounded bad.
There's also a big **** fight atm with some farmers out near the airport, some of the farms are on half ACT land and half ADF land.

 

[chrisp]

Yes it does happen and it does cause a shitstorm when it does happen as people rightfully don’t want to be kicked out of their homes. Realistically it’s on the government to fairly compensate those people for the acquisition and sometimes properties do need to be resumed for the greater good.

I had a neighbour who was familiar with the process (as he worked in the roads department at that time). He said they’d get the property accurately valued, then they’d add 10% to that (just to be reasonably generous). I believe the acquired property owner also got all their moving/buying/transfer costs covered too, so they weren’t financially disadvantaged, but rather they came out slightly ahead due to the generous valuation. But no personal experience, so I could be wrong.

The people who seem to lose are the owners just outside the compulsory acquisition area, so they end up owning a house next to the new freeway or whatever.

 

[J_D 2.0]

So now they're either waiting for trades or payments from customers to begin works. Nothing suggests it is AV Jennings holding up the cycle.

How do you know that? Surely a company that was in the business of clearing as many lots as possible would have sufficient tradies to clear more than 10% of their lots in the space of a year.

Or are they not in any particular rush to clear the lots because land values go up far faster than inflation or interest rates?

In my job the value of my goods doesn’t go up by 10% every year and if it did my companies management wouldn’t put pressure on us to reduce stock holdings and clear stock out as fast as possible.

If you know you’re going to get 10% more for it next year why would you rush to sell it. And before you @ me the 10% is an example but the fact remains that house/land prices go up way faster than inflation or interest rates, so there is hardly a compelling imperative to move it.

The largest chunk and covering over half of their stock is land that has been zoned but there have been no planning permit issued for. Who is responsible for the permits being issued?

I did say I would exclude the un-permitted ones to be generous but even then it doesnt look too crash hot. If I only cleared out 10% of my stock in a year my boss would be handing me a DCM!

 

[J_D 2.0]

Yes but the government never pays full price.
Here in Canberra a perfect example is the Mr Fluffy house **** fight, there were something like 1000 houses, and the government buy back offers were lowballer as ****.
I remember a guy on another forum got caught up in that ****, it sounded bad.
There's also a big **** fight atm with some farmers out near the airport, some of the farms are on half ACT land and half ADF land.

Well the Mr Fluffy thing wasn’t really an eminent domain issue, so maybe the consideration was different?

In any case it’s poor form for governments to offer less than the market value for eminent domain acquisitions although I’m sure it does happen.