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Discussion in 'The Pub' started by minux, Apr 4, 2011.
you're spot on.
Gave him weekends and holidays lol
I think Raj is not 100% against them. But if the Unions in Oz are similar to the USA they morphed on some hedious. In the begining was an honorable cause that helped the workers to have safer conditions and decent wages. Now days the head of the unions, not only exploits the company but also the workers with their dues.
Where I work, we have an union and even the workers complaint about the union. They cannot voice their opinion with the fear of getting fired.... is that some shite or what?
Not all unions are bad & I agree about safer conditions & decent wages. Yes there are ifs & buts about them, but heads of major businesses have done as equally as bad.
The 457 visa issue where some of the mining companies are hiring foreign workers at half the rate just so that the owners/stockholders get larger dividends. Gina 'Jabba The Hutt' Rinehart springs to mind.
Being in middle management, I copped it from both the unions & senior managers even though I was in the union myself. When I started the job I told my crews what was going to happen in regards to streamlining everything but at the same time make everything fair. I always told them to get the jobs they were given to be done safely but if they got their jobs done in good time, they had the rest of the shift to do what they wanted provided that they had their phones & two-ways with them & that they were close by to the depot. During a staff review I lost 2 staff but I still had their roster lines which meant overtime was available. I made that fair to everyone that they got their share. Sometimes I'd get asked by one of the guys if they could do more as they might be planning home extensions, new car etc. I planned those as well & it worked great. I never had any complaints. If the guys wanted to swap shifts due to other commitments, they could do that. I made everything fair & easy. Unfortunately you get the odd couple of guys who take it too far. We had one bloke who when on night shifts would sleep & do nothing during his shift causing grief when it came to getting work done. This guy would also disappear from the depot after he signed on & you couldn't contact him. He would leave early but mark himself down as he was on site. He would not turn up for work & not call to let us know. I pulled him in 3 times & I was easy on him & had backup from the other guys. He got the union in claiming I was harassing him. He even got my bosses on me as well. In a meeting between the union & my bosses, I provided a stack of evidence that supported him slacking off & other statements from the other crews about his performance. My report stated dereliction of duty (which is serious on the railways) upon other charges of neglect. This bloke wasn't happy & thought I was gunning for him but I wasn't. As a rail safety worker & being in charge of my crews I have to make sure that the guys working under me got home to their families due to the dangerous work we performed. At the end of the meeting, both the union & my bosses agreed to take him out of my depot & place him somewhere else closer to where he lived where he wasn't a safety threat to his workmates. This guy jumped up & down at me. He claimed he needed the fuel allowance for his car amongst other things & even his workmates wanted him out. After he was transferred, everything went back to how it was & our worklife was easier. Under railway rules, he should have been sacked, but the union stepped in to make sure he had a job regardless on where it was at.
There was an article in the 7th July edition of the Daily Telegraph (I tried to link it here but it wont open) regarding the union & Dominoes pizza bosses. It boiled down to that the unions agreed to take away penalty rates for weekends, night rates & annual leave loading. This union signed it away which will make the young workers bitter against unions & their bosses. I believe in a fair days work for a fair days pay & this union turned it's back on it's workers. Then you wonder why younger workers want nothing to do with the unions.
My mother, who also worked on the railways had come under fire numerous times during her 38 years of service. It was all about her hearing loss. The railways did not want a "disabled" person working in the railways. Mum never classed herself as disabled & never sought for welfare or other govt agency support. Under railway guidelines, they have to employ people with disabilities but these general managers were out to get rid on mum by any means. They even threatened me. The union gave support to mum but at most times tried to avoid it. The last time they tried to dismiss her for being "disabled" I hired a solicitor who specialised in these cases. He did say that mum was entitled to a pay out but all she wanted was her job, the same one she had been in when she first started & for the railways to foot the solicitors bill. The general managers knew that there would be a media outrage & decided to hush her up & bent to her demands. Lol I wouldn't call them demands, just common sense to a person who is doing her & wants to work.
Just like there are good and bad companies there are good and bad unions. Some unions like the AMWU get a bit carried away to the point they shut their business down. Then you have the SDA (I think that was the union in question with Dominos) who are hopeless and will not back up their members. NSW Teachers Fed are a happy medium.
At the very least you need unions in large workplaces to negotiate pay deals where the workforce is very large, or there are large numbers of people doing the one 'position description'. Out of efficiency. Imagine a school principal having to set aside time to negotiate individual contracts with 50-70 teachers? Not going to work.
However yes union membership is declining as the working world becomes more and more diverse. Now down to about 18%. For parties like the ALP to remain relevant it will have to look beyond the union movement and reshape themselves as a progressive, socially democratic party taking up the centre-left area on the political spectrum.
I honestly don't think she has anything to with the hiring of foreign workers. She owns, but doesnt run any mining companies. Most of her income is from the deal her father struck when he first went into the Pilbara and discovered all the ore. He (now her) gets like 10% of all the revenue from Iron Ore in the region. Despite who the company is or who owns it, in order to mine ore out of the Pilbara, you must pay the Rineharts.
However, having lived in the Pilbara for a stint, there are SOOOOOOOOO many 457 workers up there it is clearly because they are cheaper. It's not as bad now as it was 3-5 years ago. But when I was there in 2012, a 3 bedroom house would be $2000+/week to rent, and more often than not would be home to 8+ people. You could look into backyards and see 3-4 tents....
It was just a generalisation with the mining companies regarding the 457's. Considering we have unemployed people wanting work the 457's should be put down the list. Just from your comment there mate, I didn't realise it was that bad with the 457's.
The pubs I frequented more than I care to comment on would have new bar staff every fortnight. Every single one of them was a 457... So bad.
You are right, give locals the priority!
457 is a huge issue, libs won't give it the time of day because it serves business interests, the interest of driving down wages.
We have unemployed people wanting work but sadly, the majority want top wages for minimal effort. If you want to work, you'll find a job within two weeks. There is no excuse for being unemployed. I've been there, done that myself. Worked shitty jobs because I wanted to work until I found a better high paying job I wanted more.
Well wages are way too high! When a general labourer on a construction site is earning more than $100,000 a year, something is seriously wrong. The AVERAGE wage of the works doing the work on the Citylink Tulla Widening project (yes, the workers doing the work, not management) is $130,000!!! That's just stupid!
Someone standing on a production line at Holden, screwing in screws, earning $80,000+ is also stupid. And we know how that ends. Bye bye local Holden manufacturing.
Yeah only the top brass are worth paying $100k+ all the other peasants have to squabble in the dirt and rent a falling down house in the bush.
Well, no, the reason cost of living, housing, etc are all increasing is because what should be low paying work is no longer low paying. Years gone by, the working class were proud of being the working class - I should know, it's where my family come from. Through hard work and paying for decent educations, we progress and achieve better things for ourselves and rise up to a better standard of living and lifestyle. There's been no expectation that we're just entitled to it. These days people have a sense of entitlement - because someone else has something they should have it too. It's really quite pathetic.
Wage disparity has only widened - you'd be ignorant not to realise this.
So you think $130,000 P.A is an acceptable wage for a road worker? Top brass who have done the hard yards and take the risks deserve the rewards, having a white card and a union membership shouldn't qualify for six figure salaries.
When houses in Sydney start at a million bucks maybe it is acceptable - otherwise how do you expect him to buy a house - are you saying he's not worthy of buying a home because he's not a silk? Also define "road worker" I knew a bloke who was a highish level foreman and worked on a lot of projects he would have been on about that 2 or 3 years ago, there's no way known the bloke pushing a broom was on that. The plebs in our warehouses aren't on anywhere near that think well under closer to $40k if they are lucky.
People throw out these figures and find outliers and then use that as an excuse to "hire" 457's.
Meanwhile 4 year educated teachers and nurses getting 55-80k. That's a 1st yr to a 20 yr career span btw...
Don't buy in Sydney. That's how.
Or as Turnbull put it, get Mummy and Daddy to do it. LOL. Stupidest thing said all election....
The guys doing the work in machinery or on the tools to build the new road. Hell, for $130,000 I'll drive a bulldozer! And this is fact. The costings of the work were recently published, and quickly ridiculed.
House prices in Sydney do NOT start at a million dollars. They do in the most sort after locations in the city, but then they have always been beyond the reach of most. The problem is, again, attitudes. People don't want to buy a very affordable, suitable for what they need, house in the suburbs. There is simply no concept of "building wealth". I live in Melbourne. Do I want to live in a multi-million dollar house in Brighton? Maybe. Can I afford it? No. Where should I buy? In the suburbs/locations I can afford. Or personally, making the choice to go semi-rural where our lifestyle is far better, more peaceful and cleaner with far more space anyway. And at less than a fraction of the cost!
I can't afford to live in Sydney so you know what I did? I didn't buy in Sydney. Pretty simple I would think.
no-one live in Sydney, problem solved - such insight.
I dispise the CFMEU. My reason is because one of their higher ranking members singled me out in front of 40 other people saying that because I was a subcontractor, I'm taking money out of the wages boys pockets, in the reason they have shitty conditions and I'm the reason the whole building industry is going down the drain and I should never be allowed to work. So from that day forward I say FK the unions because all they do is help themselves under the guise of being for their members.
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