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Built 416 LS3 Overheating

Discussion in 'VE Holden Commodore (2006 - 2013)' started by LS3_VE, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    Hi all
    In need of some help, have done a LS3 conversion which from day one has always pumped out drastically more heat the original L98 especially the trans, which I get given the mods and in general it runs like a dream except here is the issue I’m having(I mostly drive in sports auto it is my daily but I don’t thrash it)
    Trans often produces a lot of heat, as in if keys are in centre console they can become to hot to hold, AC has had ongoing issues and rarely works unless ambient temp is cool enough that it’s not actually needed, dash temp will read half way mark as a constant and gets there quick, if the ambient temp is 28c or above will only be a short time before “engine high temp” warning comes on, and if use the air con on a day above 28c it will happen even quicker, I’ve been more than vigilant with maintenance and upkeep since the build which was completed in October since then I have had the 1000km service + a full service on first week of every month since and on this months one had the diff and trans serviced and fluids changed(was told trans fluid was very dark)
    any thoughts on what cause could be or a point in some sort of direction would definitely be appreciated
     
  2. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Would be helpful if you mentioned what mods. Everything, engine, exhaust etc...

    Also, what kind of radiator are you running and do you have a trans cooler?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  3. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    apoligies first time using this kind of platform had entered mods in profile and thought that was visible to others. Currently is the OEM radiator As was told it would be more than suited for the task, I’m starting to think maybe that’s not the case and yes have the harrop trans cooler fitted, the main mods are listed below

    2012 SSV VE Z SERIES 2
    LS3 416ci Built forged motor
    Harrop 2300 blower
    Harrop OTR intake
    Harrop H.02 cam
    Tridon hi flo 86c thermostat
    Callies compstar diamond dish pistons
    Callies rods
    Higgins heads
    Manly inconel exhaust valves
    LS7 lifters
    Harrop 3” pro extreme exhaust
    Harrop trans cooler
    Harrop 8-pinion TRUTRAC diff
    Shockwerks coil overs
     
  4. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Cammed, blown, and stroked, I'd be looking for a much bigger radiator, even after doing just one of those. I can't find Harrop's transmission cooler, do you have a link?

    You get Harrop to build this for you?
     
  5. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    that’s what I would of thought and had questioned it but when was told it would be fine trusted that information given who it was coming from

    sams performance built the motor
    Harrop done all fitment and all servicing so far
    I’ll just find the trans cooler on invoice and add to this
     
  6. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    I’d drop by a dealer that has an HSV VF GTS LSA in stock, new or used doesn’t matter as you won’t be buying it. Then spend a little time looking at the cooling solution designed into the vehicle, paying particular attention to radiator size, fan size, radiator cowling, trans cooler size, etc as compared to your home grown beast. Then you’d get an idea of how it is correctly engineered.

    I’d think there would be much more cooling capacity designed into the GTS LSA than a LS3. 130 odd kw extra power needs lots of fuel which creates lots of heat when burnt. And you need to be able to get rid of it some how :cool:

    Once you understand the differences between the VF/GTS cooling solution, then have another discussion with Harrop. Ask them about the heat issue and whether they think it’s normal for your keys to get so hot when placed on the centre console and the car to flag an overheating issue...

    Such heat problems are not normal in my view so Harrop stuffed up and they should fix it at their cost (it’s their liability).
     
  7. gtrboyy

    gtrboyy Well-Known Member

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    Workate has all the gear & more on his vf clubbie built by Sams...thing sits in traffic & behaves like a stocker.


    Hot them up on FB or ring for advice.
     
  8. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    how is the intercooler situated in front of the radiator ? i had to change mine and play around with it as it didnt allow good airflow thru to the radiator and engine fans were still coming on even upto 80kph driving, overheating was never an issue but the fans shouldnt have to come on if ur over 60kph if airflow has proper flow even with stock radiator, make sure u are actually getting hot as the ect sensors can play up also make sure u are using the L98 ect as some later ls3 may be different, i have seen ls3 heat up pretty quick but all fine once at operating temps, if cats are beside the trans they will be heating it up in that area more and heating up the floor either more insulation or get the headers and cat pipes ceramic coated to help, also if u have trans cooler u then have trans, intercooler, a/c before the radiator so flow at that point can be reduced alot
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  9. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    You could get the actual figures via OBDII

    Below follows some stock VF II ls3 temperature baseline from cold

    2A60B561-86EF-435E-8618-1F24B1D132AA.png 79068E3C-6D5B-4E70-B753-D741FC2874B4.png
     
  10. Daniel Souza

    Daniel Souza Active Member

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    Do you have a wideband installed?

    I would definitely have one installed with all those mods.

    If the engine is running to lean , it could cause the EGT to increase heating up everything.
     
  11. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ very high EGT can melt the catalytic converters ceramic honeycomb, or even pistons o_O


    @LS3_VE, has the cooling system been correctly bled so no air is within the system? No cooling system leaks?
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2020
  12. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    thanks for the idea skylarking that’s solid advice, I’ve got a day off today so going to check it out, looking at HSV sounds like a good way to spend the morning to me
     
  13. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    intercooler is definitely in front of radiator, at present is the stock radiator and the intercooler installed with built engine
    After further looking into it the cats are playing a part in the excessive heat transfer to centre console and area but this is not a constant and until the car operating temp is shown above half on dash display it remains as you would expect which is with no noticeable heat coming from the area as soon as it is over half the heat transfer is extreme and noticeable very quickly, the ceramic coating to help in general is not something I had done or was offered as an idea but will now ask about, Will this be a big job and can you recommend somewhere that does this ?
     
  14. 07GTS

    07GTS Well-Known Member

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    id recommend race coatings ive had a few items done and exhaust sections done and work is really good https://www.racecoatings.com.au u should be able to go to engineering mode and see what the actual engine temp is ? with the intercooler if its sitting in front with a decent gap and side gaps then it will disrupt flow, the cooling in these and very poor to begin with imo im doing some major changes to mine just to make it better
     
  15. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    im not 100% on the answer to that Daniel.my knowledge of the workings of an engine a fairly limited I done a lot of research before starting the build but took advice along the way when was told certain things weren’t needed I was never told I needed additions at any stage or convinced to spend so figured when I was told I didn’t need something it was likely to be ok to leave it out
     
  16. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    yes can confirm pressure test was done and no air present after a vacuum pump was done (I’m fairly sure that’s what was said)
     
  17. LS3_VE

    LS3_VE New Member

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    I took the car into harrop yesterday and was told the thermostat was shot It was fairly new so should have been fine and was a tridon 86c hi flow but the fuse connection for fans was shotty so was causing fans to drop in an out so both were getting sorted today After doing some more research into things over last couple days and posting on here and feedback so far I asked about upgrading the cooling system completely not just replacing the thermostat and was told it wasn’t necessary as OEM system would be fine up to 1000hp but feel it’s best to be going ahead with upgrading any way

    But seem to find conflicting opinion on what rad to use and what combination of pump,rad & thermostat in order to get the most effective cooling in both stop start city driving and if I wanted to open things up occasionally(definitely don’t thrash my car at all but i also don’t have the car I do to not enjoy it for what it is when appropriate)
     
  18. _R_J_K_

    _R_J_K_ Well-Known Member

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    Keep the thermostat at the stock temp (or whatever is in it now) as it's not a track car. IMO the water pump should be fine. From quickly searching it looks like the stock radiator core is 26mm thick, would probably be looking for something around about at least double that.

    Did you end up finding out about the transmission cooler or is it just their transmission cooler relocation kit? Would be interesting to know the dimensions, doesn't hurt to look for a bigger core for that too. Surprised they didn't try to get you to buy one of their oil coolers too.

    Look at air dams on the sides or at the bottom of the rad to direct air into the radiator. This can be a surprisingly big help, especially with intercoolers.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  19. MYVESSV8

    MYVESSV8 Well-Known Member

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  20. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ Yeah, seen that link, a good reference.

    The VE series V8’s had a 40mm thick radiator so obviously @LS3_VE’s VE SSV would be such but not sure whether the HSV’s of that period made any cooling improvements to cater for LS2/LS3, or whether VF series made further cooling improvements.

    That’s why i suggested he look at the VF GTS LSA as the engine/gearbox and diff cooling has been engineered for the supercharged V8’s power. He said he’d go and check one out so it would be interesting to hear what he has discovered or whether he was so impressed he just bought one :p

    It would also be interesting to hear if the thermostat replacement fixed the overheating issue ;)
     
    MYVESSV8 likes this.

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