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Brake Upgrade

Discussion in 'VF Holden Commodore (2013 - 2017)' started by mfrancis1990, Jan 9, 2020.

  1. KING46Calais V

    KING46Calais V Active Member

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    I highly doubt the v8 calais master will be the same as the HSV master seeing the HSV has much bigger brakes and the Calais master is only used for twin piston calipers
    Even though people don't, I would change the master cylinder as well.
     
  2. KING46Calais V

    KING46Calais V Active Member

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    Thats why there is not a commodore or GHM badge to be seen..........
     
  3. panhead

    panhead Well-Known Member

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    My VE E Series HSV Clubsport NSW registration papers list the make and model as Holden Commodore.

    As does the rego papers for my earlier HSV's.

    The Roads and Maritime Services see those models as Commodores.

    Also the VIN looks very Holdenish.





    .
     
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  4. lmoengnr

    lmoengnr Well-Known Member

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    Same in Victoria, my E3 Maloo is registered as a 'white Holden utility'.
     
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  5. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Holden owns a % of HSV and it’s in their interest to keep the brands seperate from each other within the market place. They spend $ advertising the difference to keep the market seeing them as different as it bolsters HSV prices. That’s a no brainer.

    But if you look at the compliance sticker on the passenger side b-pillar, you will see the approval number is the same for Holden and HSV commodore based variants for a specific model year. That sticker also lists the manufacturer as should other identification or build plates within the engine bay.

    In any case, Holden certifies all HSVs and Commodores using the same certification doc number. Holden sends in the compliance paperwork to the regulators so each person can make up their own mind up whether HSV is an entirely independent manufacturer or not.

    Me, I think like the regulator and registration authorities and see HSV’s as a model variant of Holden (built by Holden though cosmetically modded by HSV).

    (I say cosmetically modded as any real engineering would be done by Holden in concert with HSV to GM’s standards - HSV are not backyarders as such)
     
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  6. HotdogNo1

    HotdogNo1 Active Member

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    Installed new pre-loved Hsv 4 pot Ap racing calipers & rotors (bolt straight up) on my old VE SSv Series 2 Rotors (Hsv)Front 365mm Rear 350mm
    I used new Hsv brake lines (they need to be longer only) on the front with new copper washers all round and new Hsv caliper bolts about $6 each.
    Also for the rear brakes, you may need to cut the dust cover at the back of the old rotors to fit the new larger HSV rotors. Master cylinder will be fine and no need to change.
     

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    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
  7. mfrancis1990

    mfrancis1990 New Member

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    My Calais came with the Performance brake package - larger front brakes and I believe larger master cylinder. I am in QLD.
     
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  8. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    If you have 345mm rotors and single piston front calipers, your booster and bmc are the same as fitted to Redline with brembo brakes
     
  9. mfrancis1990

    mfrancis1990 New Member

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    Wow, just read through the thread from @Ron Burgundy - I am now seriously considering cancelling the order. I am a risk-averse person as well and could see an Insurance company trying this on. I have a mate that has been doing a lot of mods (built a Ford Anglia with a 1300cc Hyabusa engine) and going through the full process to make it street legal, I think I will talk to him. And then make a decision.
     
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  10. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Thats one big upgrade for the Anglia in going from a sub 1000cc 1960’s 4 cylinder to a modern 1300cc motorbike engine :cool:

    Your mate or better still the engineer he uses will be able to give you a full rundown of what’s required to be legit. Heck, if you need engineering cert, for the effort, bigger CTS-V 6 pot calipers may be the way to go ;)

    It’s also worth talking to your insurance company and asking the what if’s. Some insurance companies simply don’t like V8’s. Some simply don’t like modded V8 so may choose to no longer insure you if you upgrade the brakes, or simply increase your premiums to an annoying level. In my view it’s better to know such things before you go down the mod path so you can make an informed decision.

    Good luck and keep us updated as to what you find out and ultimately decide :cool:
     
  11. kleanphil

    kleanphil Active Member

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    Talk to the guys that @Mattricho suggested https://www.m1safetycertificates.com.au/ , I did a heap of mods on my car , I told my insurer what I had done and also got it certified ,I had to get a cert because I used 6 pot brakes , it was all too easy . Things may be a little different in QLD ,Check with a mechanic first .
     
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  12. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    Queensland follows the “National Code of Practice for Light Vehicle Construction and Modification” just like the other states. But they have also has defined the “Queensland Code of Practice: Vehicle Modifications” for some specific cases (but this doesn’t references brake mods). For those interested, see here which links to both docs.

    The issue as always is how the regulators interpret the National code. QLD & WA has already taken a harsher approach to vehicle lifts than other states and this created some hullabaloo for owners and with the 4x4 upgrade industry (which is still ongoing).
     
  13. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    You can still go ahead if you are prepared to pay for engeenering costs
     
  14. kleanphil

    kleanphil Active Member

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    1.1 MODIFICATIONS NOT REQUIRING CERTIFICATION The following modifications may be performed without certification:
     Fitting a manufacturer’s optional braking system for the particular make/model; and
     Fitting of additional or substitute in-line brake boosters to pre-ADR 31/35 vehicles.

    This seems to say to me that brakes used as an option on make/Holden model/Commodore which a HSV is , 'do not' need to be certified

    EDIT: My car is fully modded , charger ,cam , exhaust , suspension , brakes . I had to be sure everything was ridgy didge , but I only had to cert the charger and brakes but like I said mine were 6 pot and not an optional part . It was only a couple hundred or so for the brakes so it really isn't a biggy
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
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  15. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ the kicker is in the interpretation of what is an option in relation to a model or more specifically model variant as the regulators document things.

    Seems ABS/ESC/EBD has thrown a spanner in the works and made those in charge of the asylum much more cautious.

    If the nuts in charge weren’t so cautious, and interpreted model variant as some posters seem to do, the fact that HSV have a 6 pot caliper High performance brake system option and being a commodore in rego docs, it should have meant that we all could retrofit such big brake option without any engineering cert (since a hsv is commodore is a commodore). But we begrudgingly accept such 6 pot mods do need certification.

    In the same vein, it could be argued that the SS model variant never had a brembo option, only a police brake option, thus fitting brembos would need certification while fitting police brake option would not.
     
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  16. kleanphil

    kleanphil Active Member

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    What I quoted there was from the pdf and didn't specify variant , only make/model , I don't think variant is an issue here as they are all Holden Commodore . In saying that there is a s^^t load to read through and it may be specified some where so that's where its best to ask the experts
    EDIT: There is one thing that I believe is specified to make this compliant is that they're installed by a qualified mechanic
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2020
  17. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    Variant certainly is the main issue.
    RMS in nsw does not see them all just as Holden Commodores...
     
  18. Skylarking

    Skylarking Well-Known Member

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    ^ The certification documents DOTARS receives from manufacturers/importers definitely sees them as individual model variants where each model variant has a list of optional features defined within the docs the regulators hold.

    See https://rvcs.infrastructure.gov.au/pls/wwws/pubrvcs.Notify_Search and put in the approval number as listed on the b-pillar sticker of your car. You’ll get a list of docs including the Road Vehicle Descriptors associated with the approval number. Each RVD lists one or more model variants and their associated suspension, brake specs and option list. Hint, VF approval number is 44667.

    Thank the electronic safety features many have come to rely on for the increasing bureaucratic complexities but it’s moving towards the view that if it’s not listed as an option in the RVD for a specific model variant, it’s a mod that needs certification.
     
  19. Mavericks Choice

    Mavericks Choice Well-Known Member

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    I had Harrop A/M brakes on my VF2 since 400kms, not engineered to have them, being a My16 has had no need for a yearly pink slip yet but I will suck it & see, can easily swap the **** VF2 offerings back in if necessary! On my VZ SS 6L have been running C6 Corvette brakes on that for the last 7yrs to date, no issues only great stopping power. Wouldn't be too wound up on Eng certs.
     
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  20. Ron Burgundy

    Ron Burgundy Well-Known Member

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    I recently received advice from holden Techical team. The booster on heavy duty brake upgrade is the same as SSV Redline booster. The brake master cylinder is not the same. Different part number...
    All this despite Holden advertising the brake upgarade with 'big bore brake master cylinder'...
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2020

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